Who would be the better villian?

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Who would be the better villian?

Postby Spyridon on Tue May 22, 2012 10:15 pm

After reading 'Cuckoo in the Nest' by LE McMurray where someone on SG1 actually turns out to be the main antagonist, I started wondering. :think: Exactly who would be the better villain, assuming they actually became evil without outside influences. :evil: Ignoring the fact that it would be out of character for them, just wondering what you guys think.

I think the main contenders would be Daniel, Sam, McKay, Jack, and John. The latter two are carrying the Ancient genes and have extensive knowledge of how the military government is set up. Sam and McKay both have the knowledge of the sciences. Jack and McKay were both touched by the Ancients repositories in some way. Daniel was an Ascended and has a massive store of knowledge.

Scary evil Daniel who just loses it. I think Daniel wins in the better villain though he'll mostly be the least to go crazy. >;-D

Unless you hold back the coffee and chocolate, then he might actually let his caffeine-deprived self go storming the halls of the SGC . . . .
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Re: Who would be the better villian?

Postby MaureenT on Wed May 23, 2012 7:26 pm

I'll start off by saying two words: "Absolute Power." We saw what Daniel would be like if he ever went totally dark side, and it was downright terrifying. I think the scariest thing was that he was so calm and cool, not a shred of emotion on his face, when he blew up Moscow. In his mind, he was simply doing something that was necessary for his goal. A sociopath can be far more frightening than a psychopath because that lack of emotion makes them seem so much more inhuman and unnatural. Between sort of seeing an evil Sam in RepliCarter and that evil Daniel, he was way scarier. There are no completely dark side Jack episodes, so we have nothing to compare, although we have, on several occasions, seen a hint of his dark side, the side that enabled him to do Black Ops.

Wouldn't it have been cool for there to have been an SG-1 episode like the original Star Trek's "Mirror, Mirror"? If you don't know it, some of the Star Trek characters from our universe got switched with an evil version from another universe. It could easily have been done on SG-1 since they'd established that there were alternate universes. Hmm. Now that sounds like a possible fanfic to me. :D
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Daniel: So they occasionally catch fire, but they keep perfect time? Sorry. I think I've been hanging around Jack O'Neill too much.

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Re: Who would be the better villian?

Postby Spyridon on Wed May 23, 2012 9:34 pm

There's the fact that Daniel always comes off as the good guy, the type you always try to bring home to your mother. And there's the fact that he has ways with words. Hmm, Daniel suckering the President into a bad deal. Yeah, can totally see that happening. :o Evil Daniel having fun with Woolsey, especially after the Khalek situation, or Kinsey. I would pay to see that.

I think that closest we've ever gotten to an evil SG1 would be the time all those alternate reality versions came when the Ori had released that virus, if I remember. But they were desperate to save their world so I can understand I guess. I am not a Star Trekkie so I haven't heard of 'Mirror, Mirror' but the plot seems awesome. I have a feeling Jack would immediately jump on the fact that something's off with Daniel.

I just wonder how you would explain that one. Born evil or just made evil through events and circumstances? That would definitely bring back memories for canon Daniel afterwards.

As for Jack, I can see your point about the Black Ops especially the time when he went undercover. Though I think I would see him more as a mercenary for hire.

Possible one shots for Alternate Universes that could have been but weren't?
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Re: Who would be the better villian?

Postby MaureenT on Wed May 23, 2012 10:37 pm

Spyridon wrote::o Evil Daniel having fun with Woolsey, especially after the Khalek situation, or Kinsey. I would pay to see that.

Evil Daniel going after Kinsey would definitely be something I'd love to see. Too bad they didn't have anything like that in Absolute Power.

Spyridon wrote:I am not a Star Trekkie so I haven't heard of 'Mirror, Mirror' but the plot seems awesome. I have a feeling Jack would immediately jump on the fact that something's off with Daniel.

I just wonder how you would explain that one. Born evil or just made evil through events and circumstances? That would definitely bring back memories for canon Daniel afterwards.

Below is a synopsis of the episode that I got from Wikipedia:

The Mirror Universe was first introduced in the original Star Trek episode "Mirror, Mirror". It was established that in the Mirror Universe the United Federation of Planets counterpart was the brutal Terran Empire, run by humans and their Vulcan allies. In the Mirror Universe, the term "Terran" is predominantly used for humans. The Mirror-Captain Kirk of the Imperial Starship Enterprise was a mass-murderer, who had been promoted to Captain by assassinating Captain Christopher Pike.

In the Terran Empire, officers were promoted for assassinating their superiors and order was kept by use of the "Agonizer" pain-giving devices. In some serious cases, the "Agony Booth" could also be used.

In this original encounter, Captain Kirk, Dr. McCoy, Lieutenant Uhura, and Chief Engineer Scott had been turned down by the peaceful Halkans, who did not want to trade for dilithium. They feared the use of the material for war. An ion storm causes a beam-up to go awry, however, switching the crew with their alternates and sending the team into the mirror universe.

Normal Kirk is forced to pretend to be his mirror counterpart and discovers the ISS Enterprise was on a similar mission as his own ship - only the Terran Empire would not take no for an answer. They threaten to begin bombing the planet from orbit unless the Dilithium is sent to them. Kirk orders the bombing to be postponed, but other officers become suspicious and one attempts to assassinate him for acting against the interests of the empire.

Both Spocks find out the dual nature of the affected officers and work on a way to get them home in time; there is a limit.

Before leaving the Mirror Universe, Kirk gave an impassioned speech in which he told Mirror-Spock that the Empire could not survive through its current violent methods, that it was illogical, and Mirror-Spock was illogical for supporting the Empire. He asks Mirror-Spock to work for change, and Mirror-Spock replied that he would consider Kirk's proposal.


What the above doesn't go into is that, while Kirk, McCoy, Uhura and Scotty were in the mirror universe, their counterparts were in the normal universe. The episode did not show much of what went on with them, but it did reveal that it didn't take long for everyone to figure out that they weren't the right Kirk, McCoy, Uhura and Scotty.

The people in the mirror universe were evil mostly as a result of environment. They were taught to be that way.

As for how I could make it work, it could be some kind of quantum-mirror-like device that switches the SG-1 of the two universes, leaving our Daniel, Jack, Sam and Teal'c having to pretend they're evil just like Kirk, McCoy, Uhura and Scotty did in the Star Trek episode. Teal'c would have no trouble putting on the act because of his experience as Apophis' First Prime. Jack would also have no real problem doing so. The problem would be Daniel and Sam, especially Daniel. He'd have a very tough time pretending to be evil.

It would definitely be a fun plot to play with.
Dr. Markov: If you're implying that everything Russian-made is poor quality, actually the sub is Swiss.
Daniel: So they occasionally catch fire, but they keep perfect time? Sorry. I think I've been hanging around Jack O'Neill too much.

-- From the Stargate SG-1 episode "Watergate."
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Re: Who would be the better villian?

Postby Stormwing on Sat May 26, 2012 4:36 pm

MaureenT wrote:As for how I could make it work, it could be some kind of quantum-mirror-like device that switches the SG-1 of the two universes, leaving our Daniel, Jack, Sam and Teal'c having to pretend they're evil just like Kirk, McCoy, Uhura and Scotty did in the Star Trek episode. Teal'c would have no trouble putting on the act because of his experience as Apophis' First Prime. Jack would also have no real problem doing so. The problem would be Daniel and Sam, especially Daniel. He'd have a very tough time pretending to be evil.


hehe this is so true just look at Daniel's behaviour during "Bad guys" where they ended up having to play hostage takers so they could get the Stargate working.

[two female hostages start pulling each other's hair and shrieking at each other]
Dr. Daniel Jackson: [shouting] What the hell are you doing? Stop it!
Hesellven: She started it.
Sylvana: [shouting] I think you started it when you kissed Heron!
Dr. Daniel Jackson: Shut up! Shut up! You're hostages. This is like a-a life-and-death situation here. Start acting like it.
Sylvana: Oh, please. You're not rebels. We're not deaf, you know. Everyone in this room knows it.
Dr. Daniel Jackson: That doesn't matter. You're hostages. We're your - we're your captors. We're heavily armed. There's a - there's rules. There's a whole school of etiquette to this.
[she glares at him]
Dr. Daniel Jackson: Don't eyeball me.

Daniel pretending to be bad rather then actually being bad is more funny then scary.

as for Sam's I think she did a good impression of 'bad guy' during Nightwalkers when she was pretending to be a Goa'uld and slapped Jonas.
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Re: Who would be the better villian?

Postby Spyridon on Sat May 26, 2012 4:51 pm

Stormwing wrote:hehe this is so true just look at Daniel's behaviour during "Bad guys" where they ended up having to play hostage takers so they could get the Stargate working.


You mean this scene? I do wonder how Jack would have handled that situation if he had been there.
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Re: Who would be the better villian?

Postby MaureenT on Sun May 27, 2012 12:32 pm

Stormwing wrote:as for Sam's I think she did a good impression of 'bad guy' during Nightwalkers when she was pretending to be a Goa'uld and slapped Jonas.

I never saw Nightwalkers, so I didn't know about that. So it sounds like Daniel would be the only one who'd struggle pretending to be bad. And, yes, based upon his "performance" in Bad Guys, he'd have a really tough time being convincing, even more so in the earlier years. I can just see Jack rolling his eyes. |-D
Dr. Markov: If you're implying that everything Russian-made is poor quality, actually the sub is Swiss.
Daniel: So they occasionally catch fire, but they keep perfect time? Sorry. I think I've been hanging around Jack O'Neill too much.

-- From the Stargate SG-1 episode "Watergate."
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Re: Who would be the better villian?

Postby Stormwing on Sun May 27, 2012 2:21 pm

MaureenT wrote:
Stormwing wrote:as for Sam's I think she did a good impression of 'bad guy' during Nightwalkers when she was pretending to be a Goa'uld and slapped Jonas.

I never saw Nightwalkers, so I didn't know about that. So it sounds like Daniel would be the only one who'd struggle pretending to be bad. And, yes, based upon his "performance" in Bad Guys, he'd have a really tough time being convincing, even more so in the earlier years. I can just see Jack rolling his eyes. |-D

yeah I kinda avoided the majority of season six but this was one of the highlights :D

here is the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCLh4la7vlY slap :P (sorry about the quality i couldn't find another clip)
basically A scientist named Fleming contacts SG-1. It seems the work of Immunotech has not stopped. The investigation carries SG-1 to a town in Oregon whose citizens lead curious double lives - right under the watchful eye of the NID. But all is not as it appears in a number of ways, and SG-1 must work quickly to prevent the NID's secret project from becoming a disaster for Earth. its all very X-files ish feel to it.
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Re: Who would be the better villian?

Postby MaureenT on Sun May 27, 2012 4:09 pm

Stormwing wrote:here is the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCLh4la7vlY slap :P (sorry about the quality i couldn't find another clip)
basically A scientist named Fleming contacts SG-1. It seems the work of Immunotech has not stopped. The investigation carries SG-1 to a town in Oregon whose citizens lead curious double lives - right under the watchful eye of the NID. But all is not as it appears in a number of ways, and SG-1 must work quickly to prevent the NID's secret project from becoming a disaster for Earth. its all very X-files ish feel to it.

Though I didn't see the episode, I did know what it was about. I've read either summaries or the transcripts of many of the Season 6 episodes that I haven't seen. Someday, I'll make myself watch all those S6 episodes. I just have a hard time getting past the no Daniel thing. :<

Speaking of The X-Files, that show was constantly picking my home state as the place for weird goings-on. I swear that we are not weird! Well, maybe except for some of those quirky Portlanders. :D
Dr. Markov: If you're implying that everything Russian-made is poor quality, actually the sub is Swiss.
Daniel: So they occasionally catch fire, but they keep perfect time? Sorry. I think I've been hanging around Jack O'Neill too much.

-- From the Stargate SG-1 episode "Watergate."
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