Defying the Odds - Chapter Twelve

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Defying the Odds - Chapter Twelve

Postby Stormwing on Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:24 pm

Awww poor Jack, its sad but true about his chances of a relationship with Sam working out. (one of my pet peeves about the show, is that they kept alluding to the fact that there was this whole Jack/Sam 'thing' going on with the crappy music and the doe eyes from her and the doe eyes from him - okay maybe not so much from him but you get the idea) the fact was they kept pushing that on the audience just because it was expected that the lead male and female characters get together (they shouldn't have made Sam air force if they wanted this to happen unless they were trying for that whole forbidden fruit angle :roll:

I have a feeling Ke'ra is gonna pull the same stunt she did in the episode because she'll get suspicious, though to be fair to the team she probably wouldn't have believed them even if they had told her the whole truth from the beginning, would you really want to believe that you were a evil woman capable of killing millions and responsible for the whole planets current problem. I can't wait to see how this plays out.

thought it was funny when you put in the title of the story into that conversation between Jack and Daniel :P
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Re: Defying the Odds - Chapter Twelve

Postby DizzyDrea on Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:31 pm

Stormwing wrote:Awww poor Jack, its sad but true about his chances of a relationship with Sam working out. (one of my pet peeves about the show, is that they kept alluding to the fact that there was this whole Jack/Sam 'thing' going on with the crappy music and the doe eyes from her and the doe eyes from him - okay maybe not so much from him but you get the idea) the fact was they kept pushing that on the audience just because it was expected that the lead male and female characters get together (they shouldn't have made Sam air force if they wanted this to happen unless they were trying for that whole forbidden fruit angle :roll:


It's my understanding that Rob Cooper didn't like the Sam/Daniel ship that was originally planned--didn't like the Daniel Jackson character, full stop--so he pushed the Sam/Jack ship instead. So, but for him, we'd have gotten Sam/Daniel instead. I remember thinking that the thing with Jack came out of nowhere in the second or third season, because up until then, they'd been developing the chemistry between Sam and Daniel. I think the writers like UST because they think it'll bring the viewers back each week, so we'll tune it to see if they do or they don't. The trouble is, they never pay it off, and try to milk it for all its worth instead. Which just leaves the viewers frustrated, and gets in the way of the storytelling.

Anyway, I think I'm done ranting now.

As always, some really great details. I honestly hadn't even thought about Jack being interested in Sam in this story, but just because she wasn't into Jack doesn't mean that he wouldn't be into her. Makes his reaction to Daniel and Sam's relationship make a whole lot more sense, though.

It should be interesting to see how you wrap up the Ke'ra story. I always thought it was a bit of a conceit that they told her that the treatment just didn't work on her. She's going to know that's not true if it works on everyone else but her. She's a smart woman, she won't stop trying to figure it out, and eventually she'll realize she's being lied to. And Daniel may just be right: absent whatever life events that created Linea, Destroyer of Worlds, she might never turn out that way. She seemed to be a nice, supportive, generous person, and if it's explained to her, she might agree that they need to keep the memory block in place.
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Re: Defying the Odds - Chapter Twelve

Postby MaureenT on Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:08 pm

Stormwing wrote:Awww poor Jack, its sad but true about his chances of a relationship with Sam working out. (one of my pet peeves about the show, is that they kept alluding to the fact that there was this whole Jack/Sam 'thing' going on with the crappy music and the doe eyes from her and the doe eyes from him - okay maybe not so much from him but you get the idea) the fact was they kept pushing that on the audience just because it was expected that the lead male and female characters get together (they shouldn't have made Sam air force if they wanted this to happen unless they were trying for that whole forbidden fruit angle :roll:

As I've mentioned here before, the original plan of the producers was for Sam to eventually hook up with Daniel. DizzyDrea says above that she understood that Rob Cooper didn't like the Daniel/Sam thing right from the start and was pushing for Jack/Sam instead. That's different from what I heard. What I heard, which I've also mentioned before, was that it was the unexpected popularity of Daniel's character that killed the Daniel/Sam thing. They were expecting Jack to be the most popular, but when Daniel did instead, TPTB decided that they wanted to keep him available so that female fans could "fantasize" about him. Yeah, I know. Really stupid.

One thing I do know is that it was during the filming of Out of Mind, the last episode of Season 2, that Rob Cooper discovered his "religion" of Jack/Sam. There was an interview in which he talked about it. How he felt about the Daniel/Sam thing before then is something I don't know, although it definitely would not surprise me of he didn't like it since he's made no secret of the fact that he does not like Daniel.

Stormwing wrote:I have a feeling Ke'ra is gonna pull the same stunt she did in the episode because she'll get suspicious, though to be fair to the team she probably wouldn't have believed them even if they had told her the whole truth from the beginning, would you really want to believe that you were a evil woman capable of killing millions and responsible for the whole planets current problem. I can't wait to see how this plays out.

Even with the differences in this version of events, Ke'ra will still not want to believe that she is Linea, which means that she might do the same thing. The real question is what's going to happen afterwards. Unlike in the series, she and Daniel are not romantically involved. Though it was done so nicely, he rejected her advances. How will that affect her actions and attitude?

Stormwing wrote:thought it was funny when you put in the title of the story into that conversation between Jack and Daniel :P

Yep, I wanted to make sure that everyone understood what odds the story title was referring to. :D
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Re: Defying the Odds - Chapter Twelve

Postby MaureenT on Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:05 am

DizzyDrea wrote:I remember thinking that the thing with Jack came out of nowhere in the second or third season, because up until then, they'd been developing the chemistry between Sam and Daniel.

It was the third season. If you go through a list of the episodes, you can see that, up through the end of Season 2, there was a whole lot of Daniel/Sam stuff going on, especially in episodes like Holiday. But then, come Season 3, that completely vanished, and, suddenly, we were seeing Jack/Sam stuff, like in Point of View and A Hundred Days. Anybody who looks back on those first three seasons with an eye unbiased by a love of Jack/Sam can see the sudden and dramatic transition between the first two seasons and the third.

DizzyDrea wrote:I think the writers like UST because they think it'll bring the viewers back each week, so we'll tune it to see if they do or they don't. The trouble is, they never pay it off, and try to milk it for all its worth instead. Which just leaves the viewers frustrated, and gets in the way of the storytelling.

There is also the fear of the so-called "Moonlighting curse," named after the disaster that resulted from the two leads on Moonlighting finally resolving their sexual tension. Every TV producer fears that, if they let UST become RST (Resolved Sexual Tention), it will kill the ratings. I have to say that I'm very glad that the producers of Stargate chose not to take the chance. I may not have liked the Jack/Sam UST, but it was a whole lot better than Jack/Sam RST would have been.

DizzyDrea wrote:As always, some really great details. I honestly hadn't even thought about Jack being interested in Sam in this story, but just because she wasn't into Jack doesn't mean that he wouldn't be into her. Makes his reaction to Daniel and Sam's relationship make a whole lot more sense, though.

Thanks. Yes, in this universe, Sam's interest might have always been aimed at Daniel, but that doesn't mean that Jack would not develop feelings for her. And it does shed a new light on why Jack reacted as he did to finding out that Daniel and Sam were in a relationship. Jealousy can make you see things in a way that you normally wouldn't have and react far more negatively.

DizzyDrea wrote:It should be interesting to see how you wrap up the Ke'ra story. I always thought it was a bit of a conceit that they told her that the treatment just didn't work on her. She's going to know that's not true if it works on everyone else but her. She's a smart woman, she won't stop trying to figure it out, and eventually she'll realize she's being lied to. And Daniel may just be right: absent whatever life events that created Linea, Destroyer of Worlds, she might never turn out that way. She seemed to be a nice, supportive, generous person, and if it's explained to her, she might agree that they need to keep the memory block in place.

Yeah, I had a similar thought, that, sooner or later, Ke'ra was bound to question why the antidote didn't work on only her. However, I don't believe that telling her again who she was would have resolved the issue. She didn't believe Daniel the first time, so why would she do so the second time? I think that, yet again, her need to know would drive her to find a way to get her memory back. There were, however, other things they could have told her that would have made it less likely that she'd get suspicious. For instance, they could have told her that she had a violent allergic reaction to the antidote that nearly killed her. It would be more believable that such an allergic reaction was rare enough that she's the only one it happened to. It would also discourage her from trying to find an antidote that works on her.

Though it's obvious that events in Linea's past turned her into the Destroyer of Worlds, there also had to be something in her personality that allowed those events to twist her into a mass murderer. There were things in the episode that made me question whether Ke'ra was as truly "wonderful" as Daniel believed her to be. For me, one of the biggest things was how she reacted to the first test of the antidote. In the beginning, she wanted to test it on herself because she said that she'd never forgive herself if something bad happened to Orner, and yet, when they did test it on him and it nearly killed him, she wanted to immediately make adjustments to the mixture and try again. What happened to her concern for Orner's safety? She was so focused on finding the antidote that she brushed aside the fact that he went into convulsions and cardiac arrest. I think that incident revealed something deep in the woman's psyche that ultimately grew into the cold heartlessness that made Linea experiment with the lives of entire populations. I'm not saying that, even without her memories, she'd still become a monster. Chances are that she wouldn't, unless something else drove her over the edge. But I still have to wonder if, someday in the future, her "dark side" will come out a bit.
Dr. Markov: If you're implying that everything Russian-made is poor quality, actually the sub is Swiss.
Daniel: So they occasionally catch fire, but they keep perfect time? Sorry. I think I've been hanging around Jack O'Neill too much.

-- From the Stargate SG-1 episode "Watergate."
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