Defying the Odds - Chapter Two

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Defying the Odds - Chapter Two

Postby Stormwing on Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:41 pm

Omg!! I knew it! 8-|

Daniel and Sam would never get together if she had been responsible and without the message about his son and the need to forgive Teal'c (or Jack) for killing his wife Daniel wouldn't have. wow talk about a punch to the gut, I wonder how Daniel is gonna handle this.
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Re: Defying the Odds - Chapter Two

Postby DizzyDrea on Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:57 pm

Okay, Daniel killing her is worse than it being Sam!

Stormwing wrote:Daniel and Sam would never get together if she had been responsible and without the message about his son and the need to forgive Teal'c (or Jack) for killing his wife Daniel wouldn't have.


Hadn't thought of that, but it's true. Without Sha're encouraging him to forgive Teal'c and move on, he might not have. And if it had been Sam that had shot her...well, Daniel is such a forgiving person, but I'm not sure a saint would be able to get past this. But now that he knows he was the one that pulled the trigger...

He's always blamed himself for what happened to Sha're, because he was the one that opened the Abydonian 'gate. Now to find out that he was the one that took the fatal shot...that's gonna destroy him. He fought so desperately to save her, only to be the one that has to kill her in the end. It's no wonder the rest of the team didn't want to tell him. I wouldn't have either.

I've never thought that Daniel would do himself a harm--even in "The Light", when he almost jumped off the balcony of his apartment, it wasn't really him but the effects of the withdrawal from the light. And making the choice to ascend wasn't really killing himself but choosing to believe that he could continue the fight if he ascended. But then again, he's never faced such absolute failure. And you just know he'll blame himself for this. Nevermind that a Goa'uld was trying to turn his brain into jelly, it'll be his fault that he couldn't stop her any other way.

So, Ms. Maureen, are all the cards on the table, or do you have yet more unpleasant surprises up your sleeve?
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Re: Defying the Odds - Chapter Two

Postby MaureenT on Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:03 pm

Stormwing wrote:Omg!! I knew it! 8-|

Daniel and Sam would never get together if she had been responsible and without the message about his son and the need to forgive Teal'c (or Jack) for killing his wife Daniel wouldn't have. wow talk about a punch to the gut, I wonder how Daniel is gonna handle this.

It probably is true that, if Sam had been the one to kill Sha're, they would never have gotten together, but not because Daniel would never forgive her. Out of his three teammates, I think that he would be quickest to forgive Sam. But Sam would never reveal to Daniel that she loved him for fear that he'd think that her feelings for him somehow influenced her actions. And could Daniel ever fall in love with the woman who killed Sha're?

As for Daniel never forgiving Jack if it had been he who shot Sha're, it would probably take a very long time, but, eventually, he might have accepted that Jack did what he felt he had to. Teal'c was never really a "suspect" in the killing since, if he had shot Sha're, it would have been with his staff weapon.

Of course, the big question now is will Daniel ever be able to forgive himself?
Dr. Markov: If you're implying that everything Russian-made is poor quality, actually the sub is Swiss.
Daniel: So they occasionally catch fire, but they keep perfect time? Sorry. I think I've been hanging around Jack O'Neill too much.

-- From the Stargate SG-1 episode "Watergate."
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Re: Defying the Odds - Chapter Two

Postby MaureenT on Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:05 pm

DizzyDrea wrote:Okay, Daniel killing her is worse than it being Sam!

Stormwing wrote:Daniel and Sam would never get together if she had been responsible and without the message about his son and the need to forgive Teal'c (or Jack) for killing his wife Daniel wouldn't have.

Hadn't thought of that, but it's true. Without Sha're encouraging him to forgive Teal'c and move on, he might not have. And if it had been Sam that had shot her...well, Daniel is such a forgiving person, but I'm not sure a saint would be able to get past this. But now that he knows he was the one that pulled the trigger...

As I mentioned in my reply to Stormwing, I believe that Daniel would forgive Sam. It wouldn't be right away, but he'd forgive her much more quickly than he would either Jack or Teal'c, partly because Sam would be heaping so much guilt on herself that his compassion would kick in. I can picture him finding her sobbing her eyes out, and that big heart of his can't stand seeing her in pain even after what she'd done. Even so, it would forever be a shadow on their relationship.

As for him forgiving Teal'c, I think that, eventually, he would have. The difference between the way it was in this "universe" and the one in the episode is that there was no time for delay. If, let's say, they reached the tent right before Daniel would have shot her, they would have had maybe three seconds at the most to decide what to do before it was too late. That's not a lot of time to choose a non-lethal target that would take Amaunet down. In Forever in a Day, the ribboning hadn't been going on for as long, so there was a wee bit more time to play with. In the vision, Daniel believed that Teal'c should have waited. Though Jack would probably have had to beat Daniel over the head with it, I think that Daniel would have come to accept that there simply was no time to attempt to wound Amaunet/Sha're instead of taking a kill shot.

Stormwing wrote:He's always blamed himself for what happened to Sha're, because he was the one that opened the Abydonian 'gate. Now to find out that he was the one that took the fatal shot...that's gonna destroy him. He fought so desperately to save her, only to be the one that has to kill her in the end. It's no wonder the rest of the team didn't want to tell him. I wouldn't have either.

And that's the reason why it being Daniel who killed her makes the situation far worse, at least in regards to forgiveness. Daniel could find forgiveness in his heart if any of his teammates had done it, but forgive himself? The depth of his guilt may lessen, but it will never completely go away, just as Jack's guilt over the death of his son never went away. If it wasn't for one thing that has not yet been revealed, this is a wound that would never heal.

Stormwing wrote:I've never thought that Daniel would do himself a harm--even in "The Light", when he almost jumped off the balcony of his apartment, it wasn't really him but the effects of the withdrawal from the light. And making the choice to ascend wasn't really killing himself but choosing to believe that he could continue the fight if he ascended. But then again, he's never faced such absolute failure. And you just know he'll blame himself for this. Nevermind that a Goa'uld was trying to turn his brain into jelly, it'll be his fault that he couldn't stop her any other way.

Would this be enough to drive Daniel into attempting suicide? Would anything be bad enough to make him do such a thing? Am I going to answer those questions? Nope . . . at least not yet. >;-D

Stormwing wrote:So, Ms. Maureen, are all the cards on the table, or do you have yet more unpleasant surprises up your sleeve?

Well, there are going to be more surprises, and there are going to be more unpleasant things. Whether or not any of the unpleasant things will be surprising is something I can't predict. And it also depends on whether or not one of the biggest surprises yet to come is something that you'd consider unpleasant. That will definitely be a matter of opinion.

Okay, I'm done with the teasers now. :D
Dr. Markov: If you're implying that everything Russian-made is poor quality, actually the sub is Swiss.
Daniel: So they occasionally catch fire, but they keep perfect time? Sorry. I think I've been hanging around Jack O'Neill too much.

-- From the Stargate SG-1 episode "Watergate."
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Re: Defying the Odds - Chapter Two

Postby DizzyDrea on Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:54 pm

MaureenT wrote:Would this be enough to drive Daniel into attempting suicide? Would anything be bad enough to make him do such a thing? Am I going to answer those questions? Nope . . . at least not yet.>;-D


MaureenT wrote:Well, there are going to be more surprises, and there are going to be more unpleasant things. Whether or not any of the unpleasant things will be surprising is something I can't predict. And it also depends on whether or not one of the biggest surprises yet to come is something that you'd consider unpleasant. That will definitely be a matter of opinion.Okay, I'm done with the teasers now. :D


...and there she goes again...

I have this picture of you with this rather evil smile on your face, sitting in front of your computer, rubbing your hands together, cackling with glee...

I wonder, is your recliner not comfortable enough? Because something's gotta make you grumpy enough to want to toruture us faithful readers. Although, I know I shouldn't complain. You have yet to leave your readers with anything less than a happy ending. Unlike me...I did it once, but then I had to write a sequel just to give everyone a happy ending, because I really just couldn't stand it. :D

Oh, and Daniel committing suicide? I don't buy it. He's not the type. He's too intelligent, understands too much the cost to take the action, and he's too damn compassionate towards others to put them through that. He'd understand that suicide isn't a solution, just a cop-out. Of course, this is fiction, so you can write whatever you please and justify it, but I don't see it happening if you're writing him true to his character.

As for the rest...bombs away...wait, let me just strap on my parachute, just in case....okay, buckled up, now let 'er rip!
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Re: Defying the Odds - Chapter Two

Postby MaureenT on Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:46 am

DizzyDrea wrote:I have this picture of you with this rather evil smile on your face, sitting in front of your computer, rubbing your hands together, cackling with glee...

As a matter of fact, I did have a smile on my face. Mwahahahaaa!

DizzyDrea wrote:I wonder, is your recliner not comfortable enough? Because something's gotta make you grumpy enough to want to toruture us faithful readers. Although, I know I shouldn't complain. You have yet to leave your readers with anything less than a happy ending. Unlike me...I did it once, but then I had to write a sequel just to give everyone a happy ending, because I really just couldn't stand it. :D

What recliner? I'm in an office chair, and, yes, it does get rather uncomfortable sitting here after a while. However, no grumpy mood is responsible for my love of teasing my readers. You can blame that on my sometimes twisted sense of humor. So sorry. And, yes, I do provide happy endings in my stories, and this one will be no different.

DizzyDrea wrote:Oh, and Daniel committing suicide? I don't buy it. He's not the type. He's too intelligent, understands too much the cost to take the action, and he's too damn compassionate towards others to put them through that. He'd understand that suicide isn't a solution, just a cop-out. Of course, this is fiction, so you can write whatever you please and justify it, but I don't see it happening if you're writing him true to his character.

Intelligence is not a deterrent to suicide. Quite a few very intelligent people have killed themselves, often after losing all their money or when finding themselves facing a long prison term. As for the rest of your comment, I really can't say anything else for fear that it would be a spoiler for things to come.
Dr. Markov: If you're implying that everything Russian-made is poor quality, actually the sub is Swiss.
Daniel: So they occasionally catch fire, but they keep perfect time? Sorry. I think I've been hanging around Jack O'Neill too much.

-- From the Stargate SG-1 episode "Watergate."
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