Fanfic ideas

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Fanfic ideas

Postby AlexMcpherson on Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:14 pm

Note from Admin: I have moved this topic to a new forum set up for such discussions. For right now, I am leaving a "shadow" of the topic in place in its old location, but it will eventually be removed.

There isn't an 'obvious' place to post this sort of thing, so i just put it here (since it's not an actual 'request' so much as a 'it'd be good if this could be done, but I wont be so presumptuous as to request *cough*demand*cough* this be done the minute a fanfic'er sees it')

On one extreme, you've got Anubis, and then a few 'rungs' below him, you've got apophis and co.
Then you've got Yu just below them lot, (There must be a reason beyond the 'he's a god' that his first prime greatly respected Lord Yu, infact, his first prime had the full 'I know hes not a god, but that doesnt matter to me' thing going on)
Then a couple dozen rungs beyond, you've got the Tok'ra - and then Selmack and Lantash on their own rung a couple steps from certain tokra. *coughanisecough*

So theres a big gap between Yu and the tokra.

Wouldn't it be interesting, if SG-1 met a Goa'uld who was sort of, mid-way?

Goa'uld: "Hello."
O'Neill looks at Goa'uld. greets. "Hi."
Daniel: "Uh, hi."
"You must be SG-1. Please, come. Jaffa, Kree."
Jaffa leaves, and a lotar comes in carrying drinks.
"I would be most interested in hearing of your adventures fighting my brethren. Your repeated success over Apophis has had me most amused."

c'mon, if there's a goa'uld worse than some, what if theres goa'uld who are the oposite way, but still goa'uld?

--
"And this is the primary Naquadah mine in my somewhat small domain."
Daniel looks at the 'slaves', then back. "Um, I can't help but notice that, unlike other slaves under a goa'ulds' rule, yours... have tools."
Goa'uld nods, "Yes, it would greatly reduce productivity for my workforce to work without them, not to speak of the increased dangers involved in mining without many of the tools that other goa'uld do not allow to be used. Some do not care that my workers are healthier for it, as long as they get their shipment of Naquadah." Shakes head. "They would not need it if they implemented the same work system as I have in place."
Daniel asks, "You refer to them as workers, not slaves?"
Goa'uld scoffs, "Slaves, workers, here there is little difference. The workers are not required to work every day, and many do work 4 days, and 1 day off. They are not restricted in terms of socialising. Some of my Jaffa interact freely, although there is the understandable tension every time we hear of other humans out there, under Jaffa oppression."

Something to that effect, and Jack being completeley, 'Is he a Goa'uld, or was that just an act?'
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Re: Fanfic ideas

Postby Spyridon on Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:52 pm

Alex, why don you write it? That last part had me laughing. :lol:
AlexMcpherson wrote:Jack - 'Is he a Goa'uld, or was that just an act?'


That's how it I got a little into writing. I wasn't finding certain plots that I kind of wanted to find so I decided to write it. :lol:

Daniel and Sam would be horrified if Jack said that in front of him. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Fanfic ideas

Postby MaureenT on Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:47 pm

Actually, we've already seen in the series one Goa'uld who wasn't even close to being as evil as most of the others, the one who was in Kianna Cyr in Fallout. She sacrificed her life to save the planet because she fell in love with Jonas. Now, it is true that one of her motivations for trying to save the planet was that she wanted the Naquadria for herself, but once it reached the point where things got really bad, if the greed for power was all that was motivating her, she would have given up. Instead, in the end, she crawled down that shaft though she knew that it would likely kill her. On top of that, when she died, she didn't take her host with her. She made the extra effort not to release the poison. No other Goa'uld we ever met would have done those things for the sake of humans.

I was always intrigued by the case of Kianna. As a Goa'uld, she had all the same genetic memories of the others of her kind, and yet her feelings for Jonas and the admiration she developed for her host made her do those things, go against the very nature of her species.

So, what I'm saying is that if a Goa'uld like Kianna existed, it could be possible for there to be one that, while not exactly what you'd call a good person, isn't a bad person either.
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Re: Fanfic ideas

Postby Spyridon on Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:36 pm

Maybe Kianna was a mutation or something. Even a possible new evolution line that died with her.
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Re: Fanfic ideas

Postby AlexMcpherson on Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:47 am

No i mean, lets say Kianna's symbiote didn't die, she'd be essentially the kinda' goa'uld i'm talking about, but i'm also talking about that kind of symbiote from the perspective that, the goa'uld already has the sort of power most seek, (but not in huge amounts like the system lords) - eg, jaffa army, a couple of human 'slave' worlds, although in this case, they're not so much slaves, but not quite 'free citizens'.punishment and all that stuff still there, but those who behave, well, they're far better for behaving that most Jaffa in other goa'ulds' service are for being brilliant at whatever it is they do.
It's like you've got 3, er, dunno what word to use. anyway, there's 3. Slaves, Servants, and Workers. aka Workers apply to do service, Servants are willingly brought into service, Slaves unwillingly brought into service.
Most goa'uld run off the Slave thing, with Jaffa in between Servants and Slaves. As in, they are 'brainwashed' into being willing. A brainwashed servant is still a slave though.
I'm talking though, of a goa'uld, where the Jaffa are the proper Servants, not the slave-servants that we see. We've seen a few 'proper servants' like with Oshu, i believe his name was - Lord Yu's first prime. from his (lone) example, it is possible that a Goa'uld has an army who follow out of respect and honor, rather than fear and brainwashing.

I could attempt this concept in my Harry Potter/Stargate crossover fic, (which i wont link to except in my profile) But I'm not sure how far I could take it.


And I don't like to think Kianna as a 'mutation' so much as she having personally gone through similar circumstances that the mother of all Tok'ra went through 10,000-or-so years ago in egypt. if it was ever explicitly stated in the show, I've forgotten, but I got the impression from what i do remember, that she actually assisted with the uprising, when Ra was overthrown.
Maybe what she went through back then, was a long period of working closely with a human. (It'd be ironic if it was Daniel Jackson, don'tcha think? there's another plot bunny there!) Just like Kianna was working closely with Jonas Quinn. you know, the time from Moebius... he spent what, 5 years, in ancient egypt organising the rebellion? what if Egeria was a spy, trying to work out how the ancient egyptians got so good at their mini-rebellion (before the big event that we kinda saw in moebius and the movie) and when Daniel Jackson discovered her AND her name... well, he just worked really hard on bringing her around...
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Re: Fanfic ideas

Postby Spyridon on Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:49 am

Brilliant plot! That'd be a trip though.

K, I had a random thought. Goa'uld queens needs DNA and the stray thought was what if Daniel fell in love with the host. But now my brain is back on, the thing about Hathor comes to mind. He wouldn't do it and probably heed Sam's warning of not trying to change the timeline as much as possible.
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Re: Fanfic ideas

Postby AlexMcpherson on Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:02 am

And what if he previously heard a tok'ra legend about their 'DNA Daddy' being a human who wasn't in 'his own time'?
So in a way, Selmak is Daniels' son.
What would be REALLY TWISTED, is if that daniel was say, mourning Sam's death because they got together.

Then the new-timeline Daniel...

Selmak: "Hello Father."
Daniel: *blink*.
Jacob: "Sorry he loves to joke about that. Hello Son."
Sam + Daniel: *faint*
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Re: Fanfic ideas

Postby MaureenT on Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:06 pm

Actually, the rebellion on Earth took place 5,000 years ago, not 10,000. In Moebius, they went back in time to 3000 BC. Yes, I know that doesn't match with what was in the movie, the coverstone being 10,000 years old, but then there are a lot of things in the series that are contrary to what was in the movie.

I hate to be a party pooper, but I must. It's a cool idea, but I'm afraid it wouldn't work for several reasons. First, Egerla had nothing to do with the uprising against Ra. She broke with the Goa'uld and spawned the first Tok'ra around 2,000 years ago. This was revealed in Crossroads.

So, if you move things forward and say that Daniel ends up going back in time to when Egeria has her change of heart, we come to the second problem, one having to do with him willingly donating his DNA to her. I have to agree with Spyridon that there is no way that Daniel would willingly have sex with a Goa'uld, even if he did know that she would become the "mother of all Tok'ra". He'd have no way of knowing if Egeria would have her change of heart right at that time and that the spawning made with his DNA would be Tok'ra rather than more Goa'uld. Only if Egeria had already made up her mind to do this would he even consider such a thing and then only if, as Spyridon said, he was in love with her host. He would never have sex with her just to create Tok'ra. Why would he when she could get DNA from any man?

But then we come to the third problem. Even if Daniel did donate his DNA, it would not be used to create all of Egeria's children from that day forward. If a Goa'uld queen only needed one sample of DNA to spawn all her children for the rest of her life, Hathor would not have needed Daniel's DNA. She'd have just used what she already had. I'm not sure exactly how a Goa'uld queen uses the DNA she gets from the host species, but, however it is, it could not be stored in her body for any great length of time and used again and again for many years. It might be possible that it could be used for two or three spawnings, depending how soon they happened, but I'd say that was it.

So I'm afraid that Daniel could not be the daddy of all Tok'ra. At the most, he could only have been the daddy of some of them, and all of those first ones are now dead. If I recall, in one of the episodes they said that Selmak was the oldest of the Tok'ra.

Now, if you want to send Daniel back in time to some 2,000 years ago and have him be the person who causes Egeria to have her change of heart but does not donate his DNA, there shouldn't be a problem with that, although we really don't know if there actually was a change of heart. We don't know how old Egeria was. It could be that right from the start she differed with her fellow Gou'ald regarding her feelings about the symbiote/host relationship and just finally decided to do something about it.
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Re: Fanfic ideas

Postby MaureenT on Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:24 pm

Okay, now that I've so brutally torn apart that plot idea (Sorry!), I'll mention a plot idea of my own that I came up with a long time ago but never got around to writing (maybe someday I will).

In this story idea, we learn that Hathor spawned a second batch of Larvae with Daniel's DNA very shortly after she escaped from the SGC, but, for some reason (which I haven't worked out yet), the majority of her genetic memory did not pass on to those larvae. They got some of it, enough that they could fake it when they were around other Goa'uld, but not so much that they're the evil, heartless things that the other Goa'uld are. But here's the real kicker. While they did not get all of Hathor's memories, what they did somehow get were all of Daniel's. For some of those symbiotes, having Daniel's memories dramatically influences their behavior. Some still have the desire for power, but they won't do horrible things to get it like the other Goa'uld will. Oh, and the symbiote in Kianna was one of them. It was one of Daniel's "children", so to speak, explaining why it acted differently.
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Daniel: So they occasionally catch fire, but they keep perfect time? Sorry. I think I've been hanging around Jack O'Neill too much.

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Re: Fanfic ideas

Postby AlexMcpherson on Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:22 am

Well, if every fanfic'er tried to apply logic and established stuff like that to stories, and not do stories that contradict the series (i.e. Egeria 5,000 years ago, not 2,000 just as a small example) unless it was the very thing they were putting in that would create an AU (i.e. Sam and Daniel gets together, or, Daniel gets superpowers) which would be okay...

But c'mon, it's an... interesting thing to think of, as an 'after the fact' type of story.

Daniel heads to the Tok'ra base, as requested.

Persus greets him with, "Hello daddy!"
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Re: Fanfic ideas

Postby Spyridon on Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:17 am

That could explain the wackiness of Kianna's attitude. Imagine her telling daddy about the other Goa'ulds that are living out there. Oh, you have to write that, even if it may be a weird series. I've wanted an fanfic where Daniel meets a goa'uld spawned using his DNA. Poor guy might go through some serious emotional and mental issues.

Just one question though- how long does it take for a goa'uld to mature fully? Would Kianna be able to mature to the point she'll be able to take a host by that episode?
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Re: Fanfic ideas

Postby MaureenT on Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:51 am

AlexMcpherson wrote:Well, if every fanfic'er tried to apply logic and established stuff like that to stories, and not do stories that contradict the series (i.e. Egeria 5,000 years ago, not 2,000 just as a small example) unless it was the very thing they were putting in that would create an AU (i.e. Sam and Daniel gets together, or, Daniel gets superpowers) which would be okay...

But c'mon, it's an... interesting thing to think of, as an 'after the fact' type of story.

Daniel heads to the Tok'ra base, as requested.

Persus greets him with, "Hello daddy!"

As I said in my other post, yes, it is a pretty cool idea. And, yes, you could make it AU in that Egeria decides to break from the Goa'uld 3,000 years sooner, possibly because she meets Daniel. I was just correcting your belief that she had or could have had something to do with the rebellion in the "canon" of the series since it was established that she didn't make her own personal rebellion until 2,000 years ago. So, the only way it could work in that regard is either to have Daniel meet her during another trip back in time or to depart from the series canon and make the story AU. If you chose the second, Egeria would also have to manage to remain free and not get captured by Ra for several thousand years, otherwise all of the Tok'ra would have died out millennia ago. As it is, by the time we met the Tok'ra, their numbers had substantially decreased because of a lack of willing hosts and because they don't use the sarcophagus. I suppose that Daniel could warn her about the danger Ra posed to her, which might be enough to keep her out of Ra's grasp for a lot longer.

Having Daniel meet Egeria and be the person who made her see the light was not the biggest problem. Like I said in my post, you could have just had Daniel take another trip back in time. I really like the idea of Daniel being the one who made her rebel. That's far more important than him donating DNA to her, which she could have gotten from any guy and accomplished the same thing.

The bigger problem I have with the story is Daniel being the father of all the Tok'ra for the reasons that I already stated. I just couldn't buy it, although I'm sure that some people could.

Now, he could be the father of some of them. Let's say you went with Daniel meeting Egeria later, 2,000 years ago. They get together, and Egeria uses his sperm to spawn the first few batches of Tok'ra. According to what we learned in "The Tok'ra", the majority of the Tok'ra were born back when Egeria broke with the Goa'uld. I'm betting that, in the beginning, just about all Egeria did was "make babies" in an attempt to create a huge population of Tok'ra. Eventually, however, the other Goa'uld caught on to what she was doing and decided to put a stop to it. She had to go on the run, and her time was spent more on staying alive and out of the hands of the Goa'uld than on spawning. She still managed to produce some more Tok'ra in the years that followed, but not nearly as many as she did in the beginning.

So, in this variation of your story idea, Daniel supplied the DNA for the first several batches of Tok'ra, out of which Selmak, Per'sus and some of the others we've met could have come. It's just that later batches were spawned with the DNA of other donors.

So, you see, a big chunk of the story idea could still be used, including the most important part, that it was Daniel who converted Egeria and made her see the light, and you could also still keep the fun part about having Selmak call Daniel "Dad". To make the story more believable, you'd just have to make some changes to your original idea. I couldn't even tell you how many times I've gotten story ideas then had to make major alterations to make the story work.

I still think it would be an interesting story and a cool idea even with the changes. I'll say that Daniel's part in making Egeria break from the Goa'uld would mean a whole lot more to the Tok'ra than him being a DNA donor.

Oh, there is one more thing I thought of. If you stuck with the original idea of having Daniel meet Egeria back when SG-1 and Jack went back to 3,000 BC, afterwards, after the end of "Moebius", Selmak could not call Daniel "Dad" since he was already dead by that time, and you couldn't have him say that before the trip back to 3,000 BC because the old timeline would still be in effect, a timeline in which it was not Daniel who converted Egeria, that is unless you'd like to muddy the time travel waters even more than they already are and say that Daniel converting Egeria was always how it happened, that "Moebius" was more like "1969" in that their trip back in time was apparently a repeat, something that had happened before. However, there are problems with that, one being the obvious fact that history was changed from the way it was before because of the presence of fish in Jack's pond. But I'm not going to get into that. Whenever you get into time travel stories, you run up against major problems. Out of Stargate's four time travel stories, "1969" is the only one that doesn't have gigantic paradoxes and holes in it.
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Re: Fanfic ideas

Postby MaureenT on Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:14 am

Spyridon wrote:That could explain the wackiness of Kianna's attitude. Imagine her telling daddy about the other Goa'ulds that are living out there. Oh, you have to write that, even if it may be a weird series. I've wanted an fanfic where Daniel meets a goa'uld spawned using his DNA. Poor guy might go through some serious emotional and mental issues.

Just one question though- how long does it take for a goa'uld to mature fully? Would Kianna be able to mature to the point she'll be able to take a host by that episode?

Actually, in my story idea, Daniel learns about his "progeny"--which is the name of the fic--well after the events of Fallout. Daniel never met Kianna in that episode since he did not go to Kelowna/Langara. The only time he could have met her was when she was dying and was brought to the SGC.

From what we saw in the series, it must take somewhere between five and seven years for a Goa'uld to mature. Teal'c had the same larva for around five years, and his wife apparently had the same one for at least the same amount of time. "Hathor" happened in S1 and Fallout in S7. That's six years. We don't know how old Kianna's symbiote was. She might have been quite young, only having reached maturity a few months previously. So, there's no problem in that regard.

Yes, the knowledge that Daniel's DNA was used to create other Goa'uld does do a number on him. To say the least, he's utterly horrified. I wrote the scene where he finds out way back when I first got the idea for the story.
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Re: Fanfic ideas

Postby Spyridon on Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:50 pm

You shouldn't have told us about that. Or more specifically me. I want to read it (preferably if you're actually writing it)!

Well, in a slash fanfic (pairing being Daniel/Teal'c), the author actually comes up with why the Goa'uld eat some of their own. The majority of the goa'uld symbiotes are actually like a way better version of the Tok'ra but the Goa'uld can sense it and kill them off. Then there's Ti'vester's version of the symbiotes who take over dead bodies. Then there's your Goa'uld like Kianna.
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Re: Fanfic ideas

Postby MaureenT on Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:37 pm

Spyridon wrote:You shouldn't have told us about that. Or more specifically me. I want to read it (preferably if you're actually writing it)!

So sorry! I guess I shouldn't have told you about it since, no, I'm not presently writing it, and it's not on my list of fics to start working on in the near future.

I know it wouldn't be the same thing, but I could send you the scene that I do have written, the one where Daniel finds out.
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