Lil ideas

[AlexMcpherson]

Had a little idea... Inspired by reading WYAK.

A Tok'ra and several Jaffa are captured by, anubis, or other goa'uld, and they work together to escape, but one of them [tokra or jaffa] is critically injured, and carried through the 'gate to another planet, then quickly on to the alpha site. (I imagine this as around season 7, but could work even earlier so long as it stands to reason for one of the group to know the gate address of the alpha site)

As that person is healing in the infirmary, one of the others is with him or her... A romance in development, you could say.

Male or Female tok'ra with male or female Jaffa...

(both female is a good image, but seriously... I'm thinking Female tok'ra, almost injured but male Jaffa takes the hit, and as he's healing she's by his side... or vice-versa in gender or vice-versa in who got injured. whichever. No comment on both male.)

Just something one of the team could glimpse during a visit to the Alpha site, and Jacob give them the lowdown, with a faint smile, knowing from hints on their faces what could develop there.

Query: In Turning Point, the Tok'ra dont have the genetic memory (and I've got no idea if it was stated either way in the show.) so would it be 'so bad' for a tok'ra to be with child or father a child?

Maybe Egeria could learn of a secret planet where such 'Harcesis' children are raised, or something, and the Jaffa/Tokra couple find out that the family they were thinking they *couldnt* have, they can, in secret, there. Or something.

Just food for thought.

[MaureenT]

(I imagine this as around season 7, but could work even earlier so long as it stands to reason for one of the group to know the gate address of the alpha site)

We know that there were Jaffa at the Alpha site back in Season 6 (as evident by the episode Allegiance), but I doubt that there were back in S5 or earlier. The whole Jaffa rebellion thing really didn't start getting big until the 6th season. So, unless you want it to be Jonas in your story instead of Daniel, you'd need to stick with S7.

Query: In Turning Point, the Tok'ra dont have the genetic memory (and I've got no idea if it was stated either way in the show.) so would it be 'so bad' for a tok'ra to be with child or father a child?

Maybe Egeria could learn of a secret planet where such 'Harcesis' children are raised, or something, and the Jaffa/Tokra couple find out that the family they were thinking they *couldnt* have, they can, in secret, there. Or something.

Just food for thought.

Egeria? Unless you're planning on this being AU, how could she be in the story? Or is this some plot idea for the Turning Point universe? Regardless, a baby with Tok'ra and Jaffa parents wouldn't be a Harcesis. A Harcesis is a baby born from the hosts of two Goa'uld and who contains the Goa'uld genetic memories. Even if the hosts of two Tok'ra had a baby, it still wouldn't be a Harcesis since the Tok'ra do not have the Goa'uld genetic memories. This isn't just a fact in Turning Point; it's a fact in the series as well. Things said and revealed in the series make it clear that the Tok'ra must not have the Goa'uld genetic memories and knowledge.

Now, if one of the Tok'ra was a Goa'uld who converted, then you might get sort of a semi-Harcesis, but only if it was done deliberately, because no Harcesis could be conceived by accident. Why do I say that? Well, it has to do with how a Harcesis can even be possible at all. Just think about it for a while, something that the writers/producers of Stargate probably never did. I do have a theory on that, which I will be presenting very soon in a fanfic.

Anyway, back to your idea. As I said, the child of a Tok'ra and a Jaffa would not be a Harcesis. Even the child of a Goa'uld and a Jaffa wouldn't be one.

Now, as to your idea of a place where Harcesis children are raised, that's someplace I wouldn't want to be anywhere near. As we learned in Absolute Power, every one of those children would be born with all the evil of the Goa'uld. It would be like a planet full of human Goa'uld, each one possessing vast, very dangerous knowledge and dreaming of galactic conquest. *shudder*

[AlexMcpherson]

I guess the idea could be a planet where the children of tok'ra are hidden away to grow up (whether or not they are Harcesis's or not.)

The basic idea that I had, when i started the post, was something you could throw in anywhere in the series, if done right. Doesn't even have to be on the alpha site, it could be a rebel jaffa and tok'ra who learned about their loyalties or something, and SG-1/or other SG team save their butts, and as SG-1 look in on them in the infirmary, see the signs of a fledgling romance...

I mean, we know Goa'uld do their weird, strange relationship stuff (Osiris/Isis, but then one betrayed the other... um... Apophis/Amonet... amonet betrayed him?) And the Tokra Do have relationships, proper i mean. Lantash and Jolinar, for instance. And we know a certain pair in TP:D

Yes it was a *suggestion* for insertion into any of your fics, but the egeria part spawned from the TP-verse.

Sseason 7 or 8, either way, that part (the planet for the kids) could be inserted, even if just as a little paragraph, or something.

Egeria learns from,, erm, I've had a beer and my minds racing with loads other details so damnit forgotten names for loads of other stuff, but you know, the new tokra queen, about this planet where the kids of Tok'ra are raised, safe. Someone, say Jack or Hammond, remarks about the harcesis thing where you get to prove that your the master of Stargate canon 'Through' the couple, Daniel and Egeria, explaining how Harcesis come about... and they explain why even if the tokra did have a harcesis kid, why that kid would have the genetic knowledge of his/her tok'ra parents but *not* the goa'uld. (I mean, really, If it's the genetic memory thing of the goa'uld that makes the next lot evil, then why not the tokra genetic memory making their harcesis' good guys?)

Was it ever established that the traitor symbiote from 'The Tokra' two parter was born tok'ra or just a goa'uld who pretended to change sides (Ala tanith)?

[MaureenT]

I mean, we know Goa'uld do their weird, strange relationship stuff (Osiris/Isis, but then one betrayed the other... um... Apophis/Amonet... amonet betrayed him?) And the Tokra Do have relationships, proper i mean. Lantash and Jolinar, for instance. And we know a certain pair in TP:D

Amaunet didn't betray Apophis. When Amaunet had the baby hidden away, Apophis' was still a prisoner of Sokar. It's pretty clear to me that she had the baby hidden to keep it safe until Apophis could be in the position to take the child as his new host. Or are you talking about the fact that she didn't tell Apophis that SG-1 was there in the pyramid in Secrets? That I chalk up to Amaunet still not being in complete control of the body after her long period of sleep.

Yes it was a *suggestion* for insertion into any of your fics, but the egeria part spawned from the TP-verse.

Sseason 7 or 8, either way, that part (the planet for the kids) could be inserted, even if just as a little paragraph, or something.

Egeria learns from,, erm, I've had a beer and my minds racing with loads other details so damnit forgotten names for loads of other stuff, but you know, the new tokra queen, about this planet where the kids of Tok'ra are raised, safe. Someone, say Jack or Hammond, remarks about the harcesis thing where you get to prove that your the master of Stargate canon 'Through' the couple, Daniel and Egeria, explaining how Harcesis come about... and they explain why even if the tokra did have a harcesis kid, why that kid would have the genetic knowledge of his/her tok'ra parents but *not* the goa'uld. (I mean, really, If it's the genetic memory thing of the goa'uld that makes the next lot evil, then why not the tokra genetic memory making their harcesis' good guys?)

As I said, a Harcesis could not be created by accident. If, say, a pair of Tok'ra decided that they wanted to have a human child, that child would be completely normal with no Tok'ra memories, unless the Tok'ra deliberately chose otherwise. I can't think of a reason why the Tok'ra would deliberately create Tok'ra "Harcesis", unless it was done in an effort to create future hosts, thinking that if a human had the memories of the Tok'ra, they would be more apt to be willing to become hosts. But for it to be of any value in that regard, there would have to be a lot of such children. Just a handful wouldn't make much of a difference. And, as we know from the series, one of the reasons why the Tok'ra population was declining was the lack of willing hosts. If such a world had been set up as a home for Tok'ra Harcesis, the lack of hosts wouldn't be such a problem. However, there's also the issue of the security risk that such children would pose. If the Goa'uld got hold of one, they could learn everything about the Tok'ra. That risk would outweigh the possible benefit of "breeding" future potential hosts. So, we're right back to why such children would even exist.

I will be explaining how Harcesis come to be, but it will not be in the third Turning Point story. Like I said, it will be coming up very soon, which is not going to be the case with Turning Point: Nexus (yes, that's the name of the third story, changed from Turning Point: Destiny). So, what fic am I talking about? You'll have to wait and see.

Was it ever established that the traitor symbiote from 'The Tokra' two parter was born tok'ra or just a goa'uld who pretended to change sides (Ala tanith)?

It was never explained what Cordesh was, but we do know that it had been a long time since any Goa'uld had joined the Tok'ra. I would have thought that, if Cordesh had only pretended to convert, he wouldn't have remained with the Tok'ra for many years before finally giving away the position of the base. Therefore, it's much more likely that Cordesh was a turncoat, one who was born Tok'ra, but was lured to the "dark side" by the thought of power.

At the time that The Tok'ra was written, I really don't think the writers/producers had a firm grasp of how the Tok'ra even came to be. The whole thing with Egeria didn't enter into the Stargate mythology until Crossroads. Before then, it may be that TPTB had it in mind that all the Tok'ra were Goa'uld who had "found the light". That's sort of the impression that was made about Jolinar in In the Line of Duty.

[AlexMcpherson]

Harcesis/tokra:

Okay, but maybe a planet that the tok'ra saved or something, then-forgotten by the Goa'uld, and just the few kids that were born (non-harcesis kids I mean) to tok'ra parents were sent there 'for their own safety'. for a side-mention [not even seen] in TP:N it could include Daniel and Egeria sayin why the Tokra wouldn't make harcesis, and even if they did why not Goa'uld-y harcesis. Or something.

C'mon, just a line or something, in *any* fic that simply mentions either possibilities... I mean either a Jaffa/Tok'ra couple or a mention of a previous mission when they met some Daniel-esque guy or gal and found out that his or her parents were tok'ra, you know. In TP:N it could be source for 'Oo... Grampa Danny!'
And Jack is shot down when Egeria tells that Daniels' 'seed' was not used when she spawned that pair of tok'ra symbiotes that are the other 'mom and dad'. And Daniel adds that even if that was the case, the kid's dna is of the human hosts or something...

Please, don't make me bring out a puppy, to give you *that* look. You don't even have to go into the why-not-harcesis stuff (saving it for whatever fic you will include it in) I just want to get some semblance of having inspired any part of TP:N (Like I did TP. I still kinda get that nice warm feeling thinking about that.)

At the time that The Tok'ra was written, I really don't think the writers/producers had a firm grasp of how the Tok'ra even came to be. The whole thing with Egeria didn't enter into the Stargate mythology until Crossroads. Before then, it may be that TPTB had it in mind that all the Tok'ra were Goa'uld who had "found the light". That's sort of the impression that was made about Jolinar in In the Line of Duty.

Small idea from that: Jolinar was one such tokra: She used to be a Goa'uld but became a tok'ra, eventually then falling in love with Lantash or something, all this not recent development once SG-1 got out into the galaxy at large. Sam learns this and is rather shocked, as there were never signs that the goa'uld genetic memory was left in her or anything like that. Jacob could explain why not or something.

Maybe Jolinar was one of the few *goa'uld* spawned by Egeria before her conversion and something was left behind? This idea not necessarily specific for the TPverse, but, you know, could throw it in into any story if you want. *shrug* I'm just tired of getting tonnes of ideas and not getting anywhere in writing them myself, both in and outside of the stargate fandoms.

[MaureenT]

Please, don't make me bring out a puppy, to give you *that* look. You don't even have to go into the why-not-harcesis stuff (saving it for whatever fic you will include it in) I just want to get some semblance of having inspired any part of TP:N (Like I did TP. I still kinda get that nice warm feeling thinking about that.)

Oh, God. Please not the puppy dog plea. That is so below the belt.

You know, this actually has me thinking about something. Since, except for those who used to be Goa'uld, all Tok'ra symbiotes are siblings, whenever two of them become lovers, wouldn't that sort of be incestuous? Ugh. Maybe we shouldn't even go there.

How about if it comes out that, back when the Tok'ra were still living on Estrania, there were incidents when two Tok'ra who were mates decided to have kids? Back then, their lives would have been less dangerous and more stable, so I could see some Tok'ra couples making that decision. The kids would not have been Harcesis, just ordinary children. Some of those kids would have been among the humans who were sent to Egerania, meaning that their descendants would still be there. At this point, the Tok'ra do not know that Egerania is the planet where the Ancient lab was found or even that SG teams have been to it. Once they learn that, if some of these Tok'ra couples are still alive (different hosts, of course), I could see them wondering if any of the descendants from those children exist. This wouldn't be the same as a special planet for the Tok'ra children, but it would be a little bit of your idea. I really can't see any of the Tok'ra having kids after the Goa'uld became aware of them, and they began their existence of living in hiding from the Goa'uld. It would have been very foolhardy to do so.

Maybe Jolinar was one of the few *goa'uld* spawned by Egeria before her conversion and something was left behind? This idea not necessarily specific for the TPverse, but, you know, could throw it in into any story if you want. *shrug* I'm just tired of getting tonnes of ideas and not getting anywhere in writing them myself, both in and outside of the stargate fandoms.

Jolinar being one of Egeria's children from before she became a Tok'ra was an idea that was thrown out at another time. I can't recall if it was here or somewhere else. I believe it was expanded to the possibility that most of not all of the Goa'uld who became Tok'ra were children of Egeria. It is possible. If she included personal memories in the genetic download, those children would have the memories of her kinder, less Goa'uld-like ways, which might have been enough to influence their attitude. Something like that would be pretty easy to add to TP:N.

[AlexMcpherson]

I really can't see any of the Tok'ra having kids after the Goa'uld became aware of them, and they began their existence of living in hiding from the Goa'uld. It would have been very foolhardy to do so.

... reading this I realized I;d forgotten about TP:N.

Anyway.,.. there's a saying - 'fools in love' or something. also, 'love makes you blind'. but of course, the whole "as we were in hiding, we couldn't really raise kids" thing could be were some couples had kids but then had to leave them to be raised on some planet by humans who were nice and stuff, and that those cases served as an example of 'dont have kids - it's not fair on them -the whole hiding thing - or you - the whole sending-them-away for their safety thing."


It's like... why do soldiers have families, when they know they'll be away a lot? They may think about *not* starting the family, but it still happens. (some blokes may only think of the 'at least I skip their nappy-changing stage' due to work...)

[Spyridon]

You know, this actually has me thinking about something. Since, except for those who used to be Goa'uld, all Tok'ra symbiotes are siblings, whenever two of them become lovers, wouldn't that sort of be incestuous? Ugh. Maybe we shouldn't even go there.

If you really think about it, even the Goa'uld have the potential to be incestuous. I mean, the queens don't need sperm donors. they are all using the same DNA, it's just their mind set that makes them individuals. And if you remove the chance for mobile DNA to move around and random mutations. Considering the amount of kids they can produce, I wonder if there ever was an albino or mutated Goa'uld. Hmm, an actual snake that is actually green. . . or a Goa'uld with short stubby fins . . . I can totally see an insane exobiologist at the SGC mounting that prize on their wall.

Now the random thought of Apophis and Ammounet making out is going to make me hurl. *shudders*

[AlexMcpherson]

Hm.
*looks around*
Hello?

Lil Ideas... again.
I'll... post in quotes.

USAF Creek Mountain Research Facility, 1990-something
"And I'm telling you, you're wrong! Here, let me show you-!"
With that, Daniel Jackson watched in amusement as the woman that Catherine was trying to introduce him to completely rewrote the equations on a blackboard, some subtle changes, some massive ones. The others - two uniformed and three civilian whitecoated scientists, had drowned out Catherine's calls for attention as Sam wiped out parts and rewrote with physical vehemence.

Then the blonde turned around, and smiled at Catherine for a moment to acknowledge her presence as she continued to berate the others... Two minutes it took her, before she stepped over, and caught sight of Daniel.

"Is... Is this him?"

Daniel wondered at the odd look, like she'd recognised him from somewhere, and yes while he imagined that, given her comment, she might have seen a file somewhere as catherine considered recruiting him, that look spoke of more.

"Doctor... Captain... Uh..."

The Blonde grinned, and shot forward with a hand outstretched. "Dr Jackson, It's... It's a pleasure, really, I just loved that paper you submitted on-"

"Ahem." Catherine interrupted with a grin, glancing between the obviously excited scientist in uniform, and the bemused and slightly taken-aback archeologist beside her.

"Oh, right." the woman bit her lip, and paused to calm down a bit. "I'm Doctor Samantha Carter. Astrophysicist and Head of Engineering for... for what we're bringing you in on. and I'm guessing you haven't been told yet."

Catherine was chuckling quietly, head in hands, then looked up, "I thought you preferred being referred to by your rank, Captain, as per regulations? Not Salutation..."

"Well..."

Simple premise or complex, the above boils down to this: Sam is actually at the facility on the first day from the film (and the astrophysicist part means daniel would make the jump of 'wait, they're star constellations' MUCH quicker... something that they already know as she'll explain that I felt should have been but they didn't, but it means the briefing - "So you think you've cracked it in Two Hours what its taken these guys two years to figure out".), and consequently joins the team on the trip to Abydos. additional idea is that BOTH are left behind on Abydos... but no, daniel doesn't marry sha're. Sha'uri. Whichever. (The actress from the film fit, but the name as in the series is just easier to say and spell.)
Also, for whatever reason (In my head, unfortunately it's a time-travel one, because, cheating.) Sam already knew about Daniel, and so *already had a huge crush* prior to his arrival (It's my head canon that that was the way it was initially in the show, but the whole, sha're meant that she let it go and then had a crush on Jack for god-knows-why....)

Another...

Cheyenne Mountain
Jack thought that the man looked familiar.
"Colonel O'Neill?"
"Retired..."
General Jacob Carter just stared him down, as he led the man to the base infirmary where a pair of alien beings were laid, and asked him if he'd seen these weapons before...

Heh. Jacob in command of the SGC... later gets a fellow general friend to take over when he becomes somewhat medically unfit to continue in his post (reason: he's now host to Selmak, something he volunteered for due to a cancer he was hiding from all but Doc Frasier...)

Can you just imagine, Jacob in command, and THEN the results from that experience with Selmak? closer ties here we come!
Or maybe not.
And he'd be there to subtly nudge Sam into a holding pattern, instead of giving up on an early crush because he has an instinct about these things...