An Insight on Daniel & Sam vs. Jack & Sam

Some see them as good friends while others see something more. Whether you're the former or the latter, here's where to come for discussions about Daniel and Sam and their relationship.

An Insight on Daniel & Sam vs. Jack & Sam

Postby MaureenT on Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:08 pm

I've been trading private messages back and forth on fanfiction.net with a woman (rainbowjellyfish) who is brand new to Stargate fan fiction and to the fandom as a whole, though she has apparently watched most if not all of the episodes. She is presently reading my What You Already Know series, her first foray into Stargate stories. We got on the subject of Jack/Sam and Daniel/Sam, and I explained to her why I didn't see Jack/Sam as a pairing that could be successful in the real world as opposed to Daniel/Sam. Below is her reply to me, which I thought was excellent and should be posted here. Some of the references regarding Daniel and Sam are to do with things that happened in Part 1 of the WYAK series (Evolution).

"I agree about Jack and Sam. The way I see it is that the two of them had chemistry/physical attraction. That happens all the time. Two people who are around each other alot and admire each other for various reasons can easily develop attraction and friendship. That does not, however, mean that they would be a good match in the long run. Jack and Sam might have a certain chemistry but that wouldn't take them all that far because, as you pointed out, they have very little else in common. I suspect (if these were real people of course) that beyond just physical attraction, Sam relates to Jack as being somehow like the father that she for so long had little to no relationship with. Jack is strong and opinionated...someone to definitely look up to as the alpha male and all. He also respects her in ways her father didn't until after he found out what she was up to at the SGC. All that is nice...but for a longterm relationship? Probably /definitely wouldn't last. On the other hand...Daniel probably never looked at Sam up to this point for several reasons. He lost his wife who he dearly loved. He had other near misses with odd relationships. And most of all...Sam wasn't looking at him that way (whether he knew WHY that was happening is anyone's guess). He had become friends with her while dealing with his grief for his wife. They became friends and team-mates. He loved her...but didn't feel much else. With no encouragement and all of his own stuff rattling around in his head..it's no wonder that it would take such a stressful and emotion-charged moment to spark something off between them. But when they both stop to consider it...if and when they do...they make a ton more sense as a couple that Jack and Sam. They have friendship and respect (so did Jack and Sam) but they also have compatible minds. All it will take is that spark...his unexpected kiss will start that...make her think about things, notice him. Then everything should naturally fall into place."
Dr. Markov: If you're implying that everything Russian-made is poor quality, actually the sub is Swiss.
Daniel: So they occasionally catch fire, but they keep perfect time? Sorry. I think I've been hanging around Jack O'Neill too much.

-- From the Stargate SG-1 episode "Watergate."
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Re: An Insight on Daniel & Sam vs. Jack & Sam

Postby Spyridon on Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:10 pm

Wow a nice simple paragraph. :lol: I want to meet her now. Is she coming to the forum to chat with us?

PS: But you know what's freaky? I was taking notes from my assigned Psychology textbook as we were studying the journey through life, from womb to tomb and I stumbled across this in my reading. Made me think of you, Maureen.

"Adult bonds of love are most satisfying and enduring when marked by a similarity of interests and values, a sharing of emotional and material support, and intimate self disclosure" (Psychology 4th Edition, David G. Myers, pg 187)
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Re: An Insight on Daniel & Sam vs. Jack & Sam

Postby rainbowjellyfish on Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:28 pm

Thanks Maureen :-) I took you up on your offer to check out your site...so...hello!
“Wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair and all the terrible things that happen to us, come because we actually deserve them? So,now I take comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the Universe”--Marcus Cole, B5
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Re: An Insight on Daniel & Sam vs. Jack & Sam

Postby MaureenT on Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:36 pm

Hello and welcome! I'm delighted to see that you decided to join. I hope you'll have fun here. The number of people who choose to participate is small, but lively.

Spyridon, here's the answer to your question. Meet rainbowjellyfish. Rainbowjellyfish, meet Spyridon. :D
Dr. Markov: If you're implying that everything Russian-made is poor quality, actually the sub is Swiss.
Daniel: So they occasionally catch fire, but they keep perfect time? Sorry. I think I've been hanging around Jack O'Neill too much.

-- From the Stargate SG-1 episode "Watergate."
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Re: An Insight on Daniel & Sam vs. Jack & Sam

Postby MaureenT on Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:51 pm

Spyridon wrote:"Adult bonds of love are most satisfying and enduring when marked by a similarity of interests and values, a sharing of emotional and material support, and intimate self disclosure" (Psychology 4th Edition, David G. Myers, pg 187)

Except for the sharing of material support part, that is a pretty close description of Daniel and Sam's relationship. Though many of their specific interests vary, they share a passion for work and gaining knowledge, and they definitely have similar values. They have given each other emotional support and shared personal thoughts and feelings.
Dr. Markov: If you're implying that everything Russian-made is poor quality, actually the sub is Swiss.
Daniel: So they occasionally catch fire, but they keep perfect time? Sorry. I think I've been hanging around Jack O'Neill too much.

-- From the Stargate SG-1 episode "Watergate."
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Re: An Insight on Daniel & Sam vs. Jack & Sam

Postby Spyridon on Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:31 pm

I think the material support is there but it's not a major part of their relationship.

HI, Rainbow! I'm Spyro :D . I'm sure Alex and Lucifel (did I get right now) are around here somewhere. Oh, and check out Darst's vid. Bring back the kleenex before you go watch it. :)
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Re: An Insight on Daniel & Sam vs. Jack & Sam

Postby rainbowjellyfish on Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:00 pm

Nice to meet you :-) I'm just getting started in this fandom. I've been a huge fan of the Stargate series for a while now and own the first 5 seasons of SG1 and the first 2 of Atlantis. I will admit to thinking that Daniel is yummy but have to also admit to a huge crush on Jack that lasted for a few years :-). John (Atlantis) is not too shabby either! ;-)

Right now I'm reading "What You Already Know" part 3 and it's got me hooked! I never before (as MareenT mentioned) read and SG1 fanfiction, but I'm really loving this. It's a very nice break from the constant Twilight stuff I've been reading. That has been my main focus lately but I'm getting a tad tired of it now... This had been a great break!
“Wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair and all the terrible things that happen to us, come because we actually deserve them? So,now I take comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the Universe”--Marcus Cole, B5
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Re: An Insight on Daniel & Sam vs. Jack & Sam

Postby Spyridon on Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:19 pm

:lol: there are a lot of stories. I've suggested some Gen stories that I thought people might like. So once you finish Maureen's monster pages, you can check the others out if you so wish.

http://www.stargate-horizons.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=47

Yeah, I'm not a Twilight fan. And if I didn't like the first book, based on the reviews for the second and third, I'm going to bother. Oh well. But for some reason, I got hooked back on the children's show that I used to watch when I was younger; Power Rangers. :lol: so didn't see that one coming. :D

There are also the major fanfic archives below:

The Alpha Gate Archives (Gen, Slash, Het, and Threesome/Moresome)
http://www.thealphagate.com/

The Stargate Novel Archives (Gen, Het might have to zoom in on the web tabs)
http://sgnovels.shahrazad.net/

Heliopolis Fanfiction Archives (Gen, Het for both SG1 and SGA)
http://www.sg1-heliopolis.com/

StargateFan Awards (All categories)
http://www.sg-awards.com/

The Abydos Gate (Gen, Het, Slash)
http://www.stargate-sg1.hu/fanfiction/

The Cartouch (Gen, Het, Slash, Threesome/Moresome)
http://www.inkpress.org/storyline/

I think that's all of the major archives. Of course, there are small ones but I'm not going to list them all. There'd be too many. :D
Last edited by Spyridon on Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: An Insight on Daniel & Sam vs. Jack & Sam

Postby Daryst on Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:31 am

MaureenT wrote:Except for the sharing of material support part, that is a pretty close description of Daniel and Sam's relationship. Though many of their specific interests vary, they share a passion for work and gaining knowledge, and they definitely have similar values. They have given each other emotional support and shared personal thoughts and feelings.


I think that because they work in two different fields, but share a passion for knowledge. That they like to know as much about each others field of work as possible. Just like you have done with your "Incidents serie". Where Sam introduces Daniel to the field of Science, It think that if the roles were reversed (which I would like to read as well :P) that Sam would also spark an interest in Archeologie.

I think it would just be a matter of time before they get to know each other more then just colleagues and good friends

rainbowjellyfish wrote:Nice to meet you :) I'm just getting started in this fandom. I've been a huge fan of the Stargate series for a while now and own the first 5 seasons of SG1 and the first 2 of Atlantis. I will admit to thinking that Daniel is yummy but have to also admit to a huge crush on Jack that lasted for a few years :). John (Atlantis) is not too shabby either! ;)

Right now I'm reading "What You Already Know" part 3 and it's got me hooked! I never before (as MareenT mentioned) read and SG1 fanfiction, but I'm really loving this. It's a very nice break from the constant Twilight stuff I've been reading. That has been my main focus lately but I'm getting a tad tired of it now... This had been a great break!


Pleasure to meet you to.

Its funny how one gets into fanfiction, I started to wonder who to pair up Sam with and choose Daniel, but the first story I read using that combination was actually a Sam/Jack story :P
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Re: An Insight on Daniel & Sam vs. Jack & Sam

Postby AlexMcpherson on Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:27 am

Hey ... RJB... (What can we call you, because calling you either of those 3 will be weird. 'Hey fish' sounds all... fishy. :P )

I'm Alex. Dont get on that often anymore (like, once a day. :roll: )

I got into fanfic just through Harry Potter. Started reading fanfic before Book Sux and Deadly/Horrible came out, and went from there as people rec'd stories to me.

So far, Maureens' are the only stargate ones I can remember having read. WYAK I've read twice, and others on the second or third read-through.

I just stumbled on it, had a convo where I defended the Sam/Daniel ship , pretty much like what you said (but not near as eloquently) and remembered this small fic i had read once on Mthayer.com, and went hunting. Addicted ever since.
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Re: An Insight on Daniel & Sam vs. Jack & Sam

Postby rainbowjellyfish on Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:54 am

Hi--Nice to meet you all!

Call me Jules, then :-) Rainbowjellyfish is terribly long! I've been using it as a handle so long I forget that it's a pain to type :-)

Fanfiction was for me a way to get through the waiting period before the last Twilight book came out. I was on another forum and several people were talking about how they were 'coping' as we all waited for a year for the next book. A few stories were recommened and I checked them out and got hooked. It wasn't until I read and then hated the last book that I decided to do something about writing my own fanfic...which is a complete rewrite of the last book. It is more of a way for me to purge the hideousness of the last book from my brain :-)

I've been such a huge fan of SG1 and Atlansis that I never thought to read or write anything that changed the original. I was fine with how things were turning out. Not a big fan of the seasons with no Jack, I must admit. Hope that doesn't offend anyone here?

I actually got my parents to watch the series too and they loved it. My mom technically loves the Atlantis SG better than SG1 :-)
“Wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair and all the terrible things that happen to us, come because we actually deserve them? So,now I take comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the Universe”--Marcus Cole, B5
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Re: An Insight on Daniel & Sam vs. Jack & Sam

Postby AlexMcpherson on Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:13 pm

Same here, I liked seasons 8/9/10 but i don't like them near as much as the previous 7 seasons. Though not because of a Lack of Jack, although that is a factor.

Atlantis. Meh. Don't like the last two seasons. They kept jumping things... 'Wormhole Drive. WHAT? Oh Come on!'

No weir. *big big big frowny face*

over 200 episodes of sg-1.
100 episodes of atlantis... ...

Too little of any Sg-1 characters 'just visiting' atlantis (Not even a mentionw ithout appearance! I mean.. seriously... They should refer to Daniel running their linguistics team ragged again, and over the coals for getting something wrong. just an inserted line here or there!)
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Re: An Insight on Daniel & Sam vs. Jack & Sam

Postby rainbowjellyfish on Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:37 pm

I agree about Atlantis. I loved the first two seasons. They were developing the characters nicely and I was really enjoying the entire new scenery, so to speak. But then it's as though the writers have sort of lost their way. People's lives there now seem to lack depth. It was a neat trickc to add Sam into the picture, though.

Speaking of Sama dn Daniel--I've been wondering now why the writers didn't have the two of them get together on the show? IT now seems like such as obvious pairing. I wonder if the idea did come up but for some reason was shot down?
“Wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair and all the terrible things that happen to us, come because we actually deserve them? So,now I take comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the Universe”--Marcus Cole, B5
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Re: An Insight on Daniel & Sam vs. Jack & Sam

Postby MaureenT on Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:03 pm

rainbowjellyfish wrote:Speaking of Sama dn Daniel--I've been wondering now why the writers didn't have the two of them get together on the show? IT now seems like such as obvious pairing. I wonder if the idea did come up but for some reason was shot down?

Actually, that's exactly what happened. The original plan was for Daniel and Sam to become a pair. During the first two seasons, there was a whole lot of close interaction between the two, and, if you really look at it with an objective eye, you can see how the producers were laying the groundwork for their relationship to become more than friendship. But then, that all changed. One source I have said that one of the reasons is that, much to the surprise of the producers, Daniel became the most popular character rather than Jack, the one they thought would get the most fans and attention. Because of that, they decided that they needed to keep Daniel "available" after Sha're's death so that nothing would interfere with female fans fantasizing about being with him. Yeah, I know. It's stupid. I don't have confirmation on this, so it might not be completely true. However, what is true is that, when Into the Fire was being filmed, Rob Cooper decided that he liked the Jack/Sam pairing instead. That was the real death of Daniel/Sam and the beginning of Jack/Sam, which really took over after Jonathan Glassner, one of the executive producers, left at the end of Season 3, and Cooper took over from him. Under Cooper's control, Season 4 became the Season of J/S ship, and, though it wasn't quite so in-your-face during the following seasons (except portions of S7 and S8), the J/S never went away.
Dr. Markov: If you're implying that everything Russian-made is poor quality, actually the sub is Swiss.
Daniel: So they occasionally catch fire, but they keep perfect time? Sorry. I think I've been hanging around Jack O'Neill too much.

-- From the Stargate SG-1 episode "Watergate."
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Re: An Insight on Daniel & Sam vs. Jack & Sam

Postby rainbowjellyfish on Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:11 pm

That's so sad...and so 'small picture' as opposed to the 'big picture' idea. They set up a situation that by definition could never happen! It was like they backed the characters into a corner that would never allow them to grow and develope. Very narrow thinking. A Sam and Daniel situation could have been explored...evolved...fallen...risen...who knows how many times and all the while bringing more and more richness to the entire show. It's as though they chose to allow the show to stay more 2-dimensional instead of 3-d...ya know what I mean?
“Wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair and all the terrible things that happen to us, come because we actually deserve them? So,now I take comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the Universe”--Marcus Cole, B5
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