An Insight on Daniel & Sam vs. Jack & Sam

Some see them as good friends while others see something more. Whether you're the former or the latter, here's where to come for discussions about Daniel and Sam and their relationship.

Re: An Insight on Daniel & Sam vs. Jack & Sam

Postby Spyridon on Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:45 pm

Ah well. Sometimes you have to hate the TPTB. Jack/Daniel friendship was the best for me. :D I always looked forward to that. They way they set up the relations make me think they'll never be love for Teal'c, Sam, Daniel, and Jack.

But there's something that makes me wonder. What was the true reason for Shanks to leave the show?

And one thing that makes me laugh a bit was the fact that there was a Save Daniel Jackson campaign. I wonder what the TPTB thought of that?

EDIT: Is the biased view the reason why Daniel never visited Sam when he was ascended?
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Re: An Insight on Daniel & Sam vs. Jack & Sam

Postby MaureenT on Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:47 pm

Yes, I know what you mean. To have any hope of understanding their POV, you have to look at it from the perspective of other TV shows. A great many shows that have the leading man and woman get into a relationship end up going downhill from there, being canceled within a season or so. Most producers believe that, while audiences eat up UST, once that unresolved sexual tension is resolved by the characters consummating their relationship, many people lose interest. The titillation of sexual tension is gone. This is less the case with ensemble casts, where you have several main characters. I know of a few shows with big casts that have the leading man (or woman) in a relationship with someone else.

Richard Dean Anderson was the big star of the show, his character being the lead. Daniel, Sam and Teal'c were lower down the ladder. In fact, some of the awards Michael Shanks was nominated for were for a "Supporting Character". Lots of shows have successful romances between so-called supporting characters that don't hurt the ratings of the series. So when it was Daniel and Sam who were supposed to get together, it was safe. The producers probably figured that they could have the two get into a full-blown romance, and it wouldn't hurt the show. Jack, being the lead, was the one they'd keep single and available.

When all that changed, and the Jack/Sam stuff was born, they were right back to that issue of UST and RST (resolved sexual tension). But the producers had an easy out. The military's regulations regarding relationships between a superior and subordinate made it so that they could have all kinds of UST without having to make up excuses why Jack and Sam weren't getting together. In their eyes, it would be the perfect solution. They could have Jack and Sam longing for each other, yet never able to do anything about it.

The whole thing makes me wish that there was an alternate universe out there that I could go to in which the original plan to get Daniel and Sam together didn't change. How wonderful it would be to see how the show would have developed with them as a couple. Sadly, that can't be, so all we can do is create fanfics that have them get together.
Dr. Markov: If you're implying that everything Russian-made is poor quality, actually the sub is Swiss.
Daniel: So they occasionally catch fire, but they keep perfect time? Sorry. I think I've been hanging around Jack O'Neill too much.

-- From the Stargate SG-1 episode "Watergate."
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Re: An Insight on Daniel & Sam vs. Jack & Sam

Postby Spyridon on Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:02 pm

Ouch.
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Re: An Insight on Daniel & Sam vs. Jack & Sam

Postby rainbowjellyfish on Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:54 pm

C'est la vie.....
“Wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair and all the terrible things that happen to us, come because we actually deserve them? So,now I take comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the Universe”--Marcus Cole, B5
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Re: An Insight on Daniel & Sam vs. Jack & Sam

Postby AlexMcpherson on Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:35 am

Hey, maybe we can build a time machine and introduce Rob Cooper before he joined the crew, to the joys of swimming in the pacific... deep below the waves. If the oxygen tank runs out there,.. oops. :twisted:
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Re: An Insight on Daniel & Sam vs. Jack & Sam

Postby Spyridon on Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:12 am

So it's Cooper's fault why Daniel's relations with everyone seemed to deteriorate in the later seasons?

Why did Jonathon have to leave?

Anyone know the plot for the third movie?
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Re: An Insight on Daniel & Sam vs. Jack & Sam

Postby AlexMcpherson on Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:33 am

you mean Jack?
He left because he wanted to spend more time with his kids.
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Re: An Insight on Daniel & Sam vs. Jack & Sam

Postby MaureenT on Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:08 am

AlexMcpherson wrote:you mean Jack?
He left because he wanted to spend more time with his kids.

No, she's referring to Jonathan Glassner. Oh, and, Alex, you should know better than to name the character rather than the actor. Richard Dean Anderson, not Jack, left to spend more time with his daughter. ;)
Dr. Markov: If you're implying that everything Russian-made is poor quality, actually the sub is Swiss.
Daniel: So they occasionally catch fire, but they keep perfect time? Sorry. I think I've been hanging around Jack O'Neill too much.

-- From the Stargate SG-1 episode "Watergate."
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Re: An Insight on Daniel & Sam vs. Jack & Sam

Postby AlexMcpherson on Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:31 am

*doh*
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Re: An Insight on Daniel & Sam vs. Jack & Sam

Postby MaureenT on Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:46 am

Spyridon wrote:So it's Cooper's fault why Daniel's relations with everyone seemed to deteriorate in the later seasons?

Actually, yes, I and lots of others blame Cooper for what was done with Daniel in Seasons 4 and 5. It was under his command, so to speak, that the focus shifted to fighting, explosions, the NID conspiracy and all that stuff and away from the types of missions on which Daniel played an important role. Because of his love for J/S, the interaction between Daniel and Sam was dramatically reduced. He's also extremely homophobic, to the point where any male/male physical contact that could be considered as showing affection became all but taboo. Ergo, no more hugs, face touching, or other physical signs of genuine affection between Daniel and Jack. Some think that the rift that grew progressively wider between Daniel and Jack was also because of Cooper. They believe that not only did he want to banish every tiny crumb of Jack/Daniel that the slashers could cling to, he also wanted the J/S relationship to be the most important one, which meant tearing down the Jack/Daniel friendship that the series had originally been partly founded upon.

On top of all this, the writing staff was cut to just a few regular writers, all of them male. This reduced the diversity of the scripts and eliminated the female touch. As far as I know, there is not one woman in the entire the production or scriptwriting staff, except in small roles that have no say in the way the show is produced or written.

All in all, one of the worst moments in the series' history was when Glassner left and Cooper took his place. Before then, Cooper was just one of the writers, with limited control over how things were done.

Spyridon wrote:Why did Jonathon have to leave?

He didn't have to leave. He chose to leave. I don't know the exact reason.

Spyridon wrote:Anyone know the plot for the third movie?

I haven't heard a word about it, although I haven't really been keeping my ear to the ground lately. Unfortunately, right now, they are focusing most of their attention on the new Stargate series (which I have little to no interest in), so most of the news is about it. The best place to go for Stargate news is http://www.gateworld.net/
Dr. Markov: If you're implying that everything Russian-made is poor quality, actually the sub is Swiss.
Daniel: So they occasionally catch fire, but they keep perfect time? Sorry. I think I've been hanging around Jack O'Neill too much.

-- From the Stargate SG-1 episode "Watergate."
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Re: An Insight on Daniel & Sam vs. Jack & Sam

Postby Spyridon on Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:51 am

Well Cooper's now on my obsidian list, completely flying through the blacklist. I don't follow homophobic views so he might go from the obsidian list to the nonexistence list. :twisted:

I wonder how the series could been if Jonathon the writer stayed (not jack). :lol: Damn it, where's a time machine when you need one? Hey, maybe we can use the furling time machine in Maureen's story. :D
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Re: An Insight on Daniel & Sam vs. Jack & Sam

Postby MaureenT on Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:54 pm

Spyridon wrote:Well Cooper's now on my obsidian list, completely flying through the blacklist. I don't follow homophobic views so he might go from the obsidian list to the nonexistence list. :twisted:

Cooper is most definitely not one of my favorite people either. I can think of so many ways that Stargate would probably have been better if he hadn't gotten control. And his phobia about men touching each other with affection in any way is pathetic. If he'd been in control back in the beginning, I bet he wouldn't have let that stuff happen between Jack and Daniel at the end of Serpent's Lair, nor the hug in Need. I was amazed that he allowed Jack to touch Teal'c's face in Lost City.

Spyridon wrote:I wonder how the series could been if Jonathon the writer stayed (not jack).

He wasn't a writer, he was one of the executive producers. Cooper is both.
Dr. Markov: If you're implying that everything Russian-made is poor quality, actually the sub is Swiss.
Daniel: So they occasionally catch fire, but they keep perfect time? Sorry. I think I've been hanging around Jack O'Neill too much.

-- From the Stargate SG-1 episode "Watergate."
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Re: An Insight on Daniel & Sam vs. Jack & Sam

Postby Spyridon on Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:06 pm

Ah my bad. That's what you get when you write and you're not completely awake yet along with not checking up on the facts. :lol:

Now if you don't mind, I'm going to go and melt into a puddle of primordial ooze as I've just gone through Chem class.
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Re: An Insight on Daniel & Sam vs. Jack & Sam

Postby Daryst on Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:48 am

In a way, we can be glad that Cooper made a big fart out of Daniel and his relationships. Because if he did not do that, or never took the advise of the viewers. We would not have gotten these great stories from Maureen and others :D

Ofcourse, the best course would be to undo that fart and still have these great stories, but as all things with live. You cannot have both :(
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